Giving Batting and Pitching Signs

[Coach Dorsey]

I am looking for different ways to relay signs to my batter, runners and when pitching to my catcher.

I currently use the indicator system and I am still having too many missed signs.

For pitchers, I relay the pitch then location by just using my fingers as a catcher would. I think though teams may be stealing and relaying my signs.

Any help or ideals would be appreceiated.

[Greg Reece]

Having coached younger girls, that had little experience with signs, over the last few years, I have experimented with both a "hot sign" and a simple sign system. In the simple sign system there may only be four or five signs)hit away, bunt, steal, take, etc) the one sign I have for them may be mixed in with a half a dozen signs that are just "noise."
With the catcher, I have had some success with using a decoy (two or more coaches) but nothing beats having a catcher that you trust calling the pitches.

[Jeffrey Davis]

You actually raise two very good points. 1) We had a very good 10U team, so good in fact that we competed easily with our towns only 12U team :) We would use a fairly simple set of signs, and our catcher dictated location while the coach would mix pitches. 2) You mentioned that you thought other teams might be stealing signs: While watching the game from the dugout while our girls are in the field I try to look for ways to help their defense: how is the batter aligned? what is her bat speed? what do we know about her? I have also been able to steal a few signs. The problem is my age group can only handle so much in the way of signs and "noise". Is it right to steal these signs and adjust---I caught the signs but did not move my girls, because I thought I was cheating the other coach?

[Coach Dorsey]

At that age maybe, as it is hard enough to get them to process the extra information.

However, in my case, at the high school level, a coach would be crazy not to adjust their players when catching a sign. I guess that is why I'm looking for a better system. I know if I noticed the signals or figured them out, I would try to use it to my team's advantage.

[Greg Reece]

I and know you would, just as you SHOULD. At the high school/Middle school level if it is easy to read the signs then they are fair game. If a coach is telling the runner on third to do something, I would sure expect the 3rd baseman to repeat it to everyone in the infield!
So Coach Dorsey, since we won't be facing each other this year, how easy was it to decipher my signs? I know I had to make them pretty easy for some of my players.
Thanks!

Coach Dorsey said:

At that age maybe, as it is hard enough to get them to process the extra information.

However, in my case, at the high school level, a coach would be crazy not to adjust their players when catching a sign. I guess that is why I'm looking for a better system. I know if I noticed the signals or figured them out, I would try to use it to my team's advantage.

[Coach Dorsey]

To tell you the truth, I never tried. I was just too focused on what I was trying to do with each batter and runner.

As for your batting signs, I was always trying to out think the hitters with my pitch calls so again I never noticed.

Now whether Coach Greer did or not, I have no idea. Maybe that's why we hit well and I thought it was the practice plans, Ha!

I just noticed Colbaugh's Dad from Unaka calling out my pitches in the Championship game and figured in High School a coach will probably be assigned to steal signs.

Greg Reece said:

I and know you would, just as you SHOULD. At the high school/Middle school level if it is easy to read the signs then they are fair game. If a coach is telling the runner on third to do something, I would sure expect the 3rd baseman to repeat it to everyone in the infield!
So Coach Dorsey, since we won't be facing each other this year, how easy was it to decipher my signs? I know I had to make them pretty easy for some of my players.
Thanks!

Coach Dorsey said:

At that age maybe, as it is hard enough to get them to process the extra information.

However, in my case, at the high school level, a coach would be crazy not to adjust their players when catching a sign. I guess that is why I'm looking for a better system. I know if I noticed the signals or figured them out, I would try to use it to my team's advantage.

[Greg Reece]

I am like you in that repect, i have too much to do try to pick up on the signs. If I were in the dugout with two coaches on bases I might be able to but how easy would it be to get that info to the batter? Not too easy to do when I am trying to communicate with batters and runners. I don't know how many HS teams would actually be able to a coach doing this, and probably only about half of those would even admit to it! LOL
One of the few times I ever did it was playing in a fall league and the coach sat on a bucket directly opposite from me, and he would hold his sign so long that I could not miss it. His pitcher had a pretty good change up, but we were waiting for it and hitting it very well by the later innings. I couldn't help it that I had to take may hat off (for my players to see) everytime she threw it.....

Coach Dorsey said:

To tell you the truth, I never tried. I was just too focused on what I was trying to do with each batter and runner.

As for your batting signs, I was always trying to out think the hitters with my pitch calls so again I never noticed.

Now whether Coach Greer did or not, I have no idea. Maybe that's why we hit well and I thought it was the practice plans, Ha!

I just noticed Colbaugh's Dad from Unaka calling out my pitches in the Championship game and figured in High School a coach will probably be assigned to steal signs.

Greg Reece said:

I and know you would, just as you SHOULD. At the high school/Middle school level if it is easy to read the signs then they are fair game. If a coach is telling the runner on third to do something, I would sure expect the 3rd baseman to repeat it to everyone in the infield!
So Coach Dorsey, since we won't be facing each other this year, how easy was it to decipher my signs? I know I had to make them pretty easy for some of my players.
Thanks!

Coach Dorsey said:

At that age maybe, as it is hard enough to get them to process the extra information.

However, in my case, at the high school level, a coach would be crazy not to adjust their players when catching a sign. I guess that is why I'm looking for a better system. I know if I noticed the signals or figured them out, I would try to use it to my team's advantage.

[Stacie Mahoe]

I do know of teams where it does seem like they have one coach just focused on watching the other team...that's it.

I agree with you guys that if they signals easy to pick up on, you should use that to your advantage. Some feel like it's playing dirty. We had a discussion about it here http://fastpitchworld.ning.com/forum/topics/whats-your-take-stealing

Others feel like it's cheating. I can't see KNOWING your opponent is going to bunt and not adjusting accordingly.

Anyway - as far as younger teams are concerned, I'm with Greg...keep it super simple. Very few signs, I like to use an indicator and tell my players to just watch for ONLY that and the signal right after, that's it. Even with a relatively inexperienced team, we didn't have too many signal problems. Of course, it is something you need to practice with them regularly as well.

At the high school level however, where coaches tend to use more complicated systems I see LOTS of missed signals.

Though I have to admit...when I was in college, even though it was the MOST signals I had to remember, the coach used one of the simplest ways of giving them to us (as compared to other coaches I'd had in the past).

[Mike Neeley]

Coach, a couple of things.. If you use the touch system, keep in mind most girls will see the opposite of what you are doing. Unless you practice it, if you touch your right arm, they see and think left arm and vica versa. Similar to touching your face when you see something on someone else’s face and want to tell them on the sly. You look at them and wipe your right cheek and they then wipe their left cheek. Like looking into a mirror.
I would like to know the psychology behind that phenomenon.

Kiss principle is very important. Simple, but easily adjustable from inning to inning.
For example, even numbered innings equate to even numbered touches. Odd innings equate to odd number of touches. This is geared to 13 years old and up…
Cindy Bristow put out some information on the different types of signal systems.
http://www.softballexcellence.com/

Here is how I established signals this year with my 16u team.
At a team meeting, I lectured on three different systems that I know of. The girls then voted on which system they wanted to use. We ended up with a hybrid of the various systems but the point here is the girls and I developed the system together, with their input being the strongest. This method has made the girls accountable to know the signals. When they don't know the signal I re-instruct them on that particular signal one time. After that they will be running for missing a sign they helped develop.

It has worked really well.

[Stacie Mahoe]

Great input Mike - thanks!

[Coach Dorsey]

Need a way to give pitch and location to the catcher.

Any examples would be appreciated

[Mike Davis]

I try to keep my hitting signals simple but I obviously do things to disguise them. I do use the indicator since it is very easy to change the indicator at anytime during the season without having to change all the signs.

For pitching, if I am calling the pitches, I use fingers as well. My location indicator is quite simple too as I go with a 1 for 1st base side and 3 for 3rd base side. This way there is no confusion between "inside" or "outside" from left to right handed batters. Depending upon my team level and catcher's ability, I try to provide opportunities for the catcher to call the game. I have had a few teams where I let the catchers do most of the calling. But of course, I reserve the right to take over if things aren't going well.

If you think your opponent is picking up your pitching signs you can confuse them by using a four signal system where you give your catcher four signs and tell the catcher which two to use.

[Gordon Thomas Lorance]

I like to chang my indicator sign to my hitters and base runners but I keep my signs the same as for as my pitching I let my catcher call her game and if I want spmething special I use a noise to let her no I run several catchers programs for the local little leauge teaching young catchers what to look for in batters and what defense helps as well education is the key for good catchers